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 27 years ago today
Gazomg
 Posted: Sep 28 2014, 02:47 PM
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Dal


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was the first episode of TNG.

Yes the show that gave us the cardassians

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Shada Dukal
 Posted: Sep 28 2014, 03:06 PM
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Gul


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Only nine episodes feature the Cardassians. I still can’t believe that they managed to create something so good having in mind the usual syrupy stuff. Still, nine is better than zero. Congratulations!
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Gazomg
 Posted: Sep 28 2014, 03:23 PM
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Dal


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true.

TNG might have been where the cardassians first started but it was DS9 that made them.

In fact it was that way for a few of the races, the ferengi being another example

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Amroth Dolak
 Posted: Sep 29 2014, 01:09 AM
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Jagul


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Although they weren't up to speed yet in TNG, they were still intrueging. But indeed, like the Ferengi, it took the Cardassians untill DS9 to grow into the race whe know them as now.
Neither the Ferengi nor the Cardassians were able to reach their full potential in the TNG frame.
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Shada Dukal
 Posted: Sep 29 2014, 07:35 AM
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Gul


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The biggest flaw of TNG is that it was made within Roddenberry’s constraints – no personal conflicts, strict delineation between good and evil, clear moral message. This approach does not leave any space for anti-heroes. What DS9 managed to achieve was a more in-depth portrayal of a wide range of alien races. They weren’t always presented justly and favorably but still it was a huge step toward a less rigid and over-simplistic point of view.
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Nerys Ghemor
 Posted: Sep 29 2014, 08:04 AM
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Hebitian at Heart


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QUOTE (Amroth Dolak @ Sep 29 2014, 12:09 AM)
Although they weren't up to speed yet in TNG, they were still intrueging. But indeed, like the Ferengi, it took the Cardassians untill DS9 to grow into the race whe know them as now.
Neither the Ferengi nor the Cardassians were able to reach their full potential in the TNG frame.


They may not--but I have to say, compared to what TNG usually did with its "aliens of the week," when I see "The Wounded," one of the things that really strikes me is that instead of all being moustache-twirling villains, while the Cardassians *are* one of the antagonists, each of the Cardassians in the episode acts differently and has their own personality, from the obnoxious Telle to the thoughtful and haunted Daro, to the calculating and self-controlled Macet (who I suspect is trying very hard to salvage the situation despite being stuck between Picard's idiocy and what he knows is the duplicity of his superiors). TNG didn't usually bother to give its aliens personalities to that extent...certainly an auspicious start for the Cardassians.

This post has been edited by Nerys Ghemor: Sep 29 2014, 08:05 AM

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Amroth Dolak
 Posted: Sep 29 2014, 10:48 AM
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Jagul


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QUOTE (Nerys Ghemor @ Sep 29 2014, 02:04 PM)
They may not--but I have to say, compared to what TNG usually did with its "aliens of the week," when I see "The Wounded," one of the things that really strikes me is that instead of all being moustache-twirling villains, while the Cardassians *are* one of the antagonists, each of the Cardassians in the episode acts differently and has their own personality, from the obnoxious Telle to the thoughtful and haunted Daro, to the calculating and self-controlled Macet (who I suspect is trying very hard to salvage the situation despite being stuck between Picard's idiocy and what he knows is the duplicity of his superiors).  TNG didn't usually bother to give its aliens personalities to that extent...certainly an auspicious start for the Cardassians.


I feel that the Cardassians of DS9 have their own personalities as well, trying to fill in the common concept of "being a Cardassian" in their own way. Dukat is the militaristic and conquering type, while Garak is more the "sneaking up behind your back" kind of type.

Just as much as Rom, Nog and Quark are all Ferengi's in their own way, Quark being the obvious greedy one, while Nog and Rom are less abvious.
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Shada Dukal
 Posted: Sep 29 2014, 03:19 PM
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Gul


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What differs DS9 from TNG are the plot arcs that develop through the show. I like Gul Macet’s portrayal very much, his glinns are interesting and opposing characters, but still one disconnected appearance can’t provide much depth no matter how good the acting and the script are. All main and recurring characters in DS9 change through the years. What is more, watching and understanding DS9 characters without being fully aware of their prehistory and previous appearances is impossible. TNG was much simpler – Picard is flying around and faces different challenges. If you miss one episode, you can continue watching – all stories are supposed to be told in 45 minutes.

The authors wanted the Cardassians to replace the Borg. Humanoid evil against collective faceless evil. But since presenting a whole race as villains simply did not make sense they reluctantly gave them personality, choices, dilemmas. The only problem was that they were not villains any more – complex anti-heroes and a whole new culture to explore. So they had to create the Dominion in DS9.

This post has been edited by Shada Dukal: Sep 29 2014, 03:21 PM
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Gazomg
 Posted: Sep 29 2014, 04:58 PM
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Dal


Group: Cardassian
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TNG suffered from the same thing as the original series and this was touched upon in an episode of ds9 in that every week it was a new cast of visitors, new story, the previous weejs people simply consigned to the trek history archive.

In an episode of DS9 the doctor that finished ahead of bashir in his class told him she regreted not taking the job he did, as all they did was travel round.

There was no continuation.

Also it was not just ferengi and cardassian introduced in TNg, they also had the bajorans, or bajora as they called them then and the maquis.

Pity the bajorans did not die with TNG, awful dull race

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Amroth Dolak
 Posted: Sep 30 2014, 01:10 AM
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Jagul


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QUOTE (Gazomg @ Sep 29 2014, 10:58 PM)
In an episode of DS9 the doctor that finished ahead of bashir in his class told him she regreted not taking the job he did, as all they did was travel round.

There was no continuation.

Also it was not just ferengi and cardassian introduced in TNg, they also had the bajorans, or bajora as they called them then and the maquis.

Pity the bajorans did not die with TNG, awful dull race


I remember that being said, that's why I think that Bashir was "smart enough" to have that one mistake slip in to his final exams, so that he would end up second and could choose where he could go to.

Remember that Bolian hair dresser from TNG, it always had me in a good belly laugh when Picard went over for a haircut. Never saw to many Bolians in DS9 either.

Yeah, remarkable that the Bajorans are such a big part of the DS9 storyline when they actually are not the main subject of the show.
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Yeela
 Posted: Sep 30 2014, 02:00 AM
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Garresh


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wow 27 years ago.... i feel soooo freaking old right now lol !! awesome show though! biggrin.gif
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Amroth Dolak
 Posted: Sep 30 2014, 03:29 AM
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Jagul


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Now, now, that's no way to talk.
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Shada Dukal
 Posted: Sep 30 2014, 07:47 AM
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Gul


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Yes, in fact, the Bajorans were created with the sheer purpose to illustrate how evil the Cardassians were. And they were introduced in season 5, later than the Cardassians. Ironically, their very existence is justified by the Cardassians. Not only dull but also ungrateful.
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Alin Prinna
 Posted: Sep 30 2014, 07:59 AM
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Newbie


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QUOTE (Shada Dukal @ Sep 28 2014, 03:06 PM)
Only nine episodes feature the Cardassians. I still can’t believe that they managed to create something so good having in mind the usual syrupy stuff. Still, nine is better than zero. Congratulations!


Yes -- would've loved more Cardassian episodes, yet they always gave the feeling they were lurking around out there even if we never saw them. They seemed to be frequently concerned about being near Cardassian territory or what the Cardassians were up to.

I think my fave TNG Cardassian would have to be Ocett -- the look of absolute disgust she kept giving the Klingon in that episode was priceless. That was a lady with attitude. Every time my boss opens up her mouth and says something ridiculous (which is pretty much everyday), I think of Ocett's expression.
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Shada Dukal
 Posted: Sep 30 2014, 08:27 AM
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Gul


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The Feds should have been concerned. Poking their noses into Cardassian territory is unwise and unhealthy. And Gul Ocett is great – tough, cocky with an air of cold disdain. Too bad she did not appear in DS9. If looks could kill…Don’t kill your boss before you get your paycheck, Alin.
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